Theory: Religious Debate - Purpose, Relevance and End

An MSN conversation recorded between me and a friend of mine, let me know what you think.


ME (6:37 PM):
are you fantastically religious?

FRIEND (6:38 PM):
God, Heaven, Hell, Satan?

ME (6:39 PM):
Well if you are, ill stop right here.. but if you aren’t i can proceeded without offending you.

FRIEND (6:39 PM):
I'm not religious lol

ME (6:41 PM):
ok.. do you agree with this -
God was made as a super psychological product handed down through the generations that acts as training wheels for a developing sentient species.

ME (6:42 PM):
Going by this... Mankind isnt mature
dosent this make sense?

FRIEND (6:43 PM):
if the first statement is deemed true then the second statement would be logical, yes

ME (6:44 PM):
Its seems true because if happens to fit the picture of mankind’s history

ME (6:45 PM):
The ultimate mission for any philosopher imo is to mature mankind
or to at least help iot mature

ME (6:46 PM):
Teaching religion to children.. today... is like handing down the earliest form of the periodic table

ME (6:47 PM):
Id also like to point out that this view is of todays religions, religion in the past thousand two two thousand years has helped mankind in some of the most critical parts in history, not so much God has helped but the belief was enough to change things for the better, that being said there are today very few revolutionary changes that need to be made in our world.
that relgion can deal with

FRIEND (6:48 PM):
but does religion not continue to shape and define most of our ideals? certainly it has defined "good" and "evil"
in fact, many of our laws are based on religious beliefs that have evolved into societal norms

FRIEND (6:49 PM):
for example, y do u think gays are always ridiculed in most western societies?

ME (6:49 PM):
Religion
yes
but its also against nature and the whole purpose of sex.. pro-creation
we can evolve our understandings all we like but in the end its purpose


ME (6:50 PM):
whatever love, emotion or thought after is irrelevant i think


ME(6:51 PM):
What where the people at a young age taught who made those laws
religion..
i think religion is reaching its end of life or close to it
Now im one to accept that there are times when lies need to be told for the greater when compared to the alternative, but the negatives are too great with religion. Now i understand that it will take time if ever for the religion to be weeded out but you can already see a difference when compared to 100 years ago, its slowly happening because each generation is more self aware.

ME (6:52 PM):
each generation is becoming more mature
Will you teach your children religion + its good values or JUST its good values and the truth?

ME (6:53 PM):
We hardly see these kind of things... all we hear about is god save us and religion this and religion that.. we cna keep the good things dark but we dont have to keep the lies

FRIEND (6:55 PM):
well I'm not religious so I won't choose to teach my kids religion

ME (6:55 PM):
Parents are responsible for the next generations advancement and achievements, why are they still lying to children.. every generation does but slowly with each passing generation they seem to not believe anymore and the ones that do are merely confused because they think the religion is good but the ideals of religion are good not the religion itself

FRIEND (6:56 PM):
I think it's more of a personal choice, whether they buy into it or not, I personally believe in God but no particular religion can, atm, make me believe fully in it
well, can it not be argued that the good that religion brings is ultimately tied into religion itself?

FRIEND (6:57 PM):
the belief in religion is the method in which those positive values are taught and excercised

ME (6:57 PM):
yes... but theres a better way

ME (6:58 PM):
the truth.. we have many things the old world didn’t..

ME (6:59 PM):
the person who created religion was probably a Philosopher who saw his race at each others throats and decided to act by creating an ultimate religion
this all is speculation.. i know
but religion is getting older and older

ME (7:00 PM):
eventually its going to be replaced... at is already has been semi replaced by other things

ME (7:02 PM):
A lie is no way to teach anyone about good values and proper behavior...

FRIEND (7:07 PM):
I'm not one to defend religion as I'm not a religious person but I do not disbelieve it either
who's to say that religion is not fully correct? perhaps it was based on truth, perhaps not?

FRIEND (7:08 PM):
I do not think that based on pure speculation alone is enough to deem thousands of years of belief into a lie ?
what do u believe?

ME (7:09 PM):
Its is and man created it and a man.. this particluar man is calling it a lie
religion vs science

ME (7:10 PM):
i have a religion dark
I went to Melbourne last year
i took an elevator to the observation deck

ME (7:11 PM):
and as i looked across the city
i saw everything created or influenced by man...

FRIEND (7:13 PM):
ok

FRIEND (7:13 PM):
i did not see a god... and on that day i stopped thinking that god existed... and you know it felt lonely it felt somewhat empty... but you know dark.. after awhile i realized that if i wanted to talk about it i could still do it, if i wanted to hold someone i could still do it, i f i wanted to play a game i could still do it
infact the only difference between a life with god and without is exactly that

FRIEND (7:14 PM):
but did your belief in God not strengthen your resolve? make u feel more comfotable? as if there was someone looking out for u, less lonely persay?

FRIEND (7:15 PM):
perhaps the city that u saw was God's work, perhaps he allowed man kind to evolve into what it is today, perhaps science is his method of teaching us his vast knowledge?

ME (7:15 PM):
yes.. and thats its most attractive and insidious quality

ME (7:21 PM):
this is why its popular and that coupled with the good values etc etc.. well its hard to argue against a very good thing i mean you end up looking like a prick

FRIEND (7:22 PM):
mmhmm
well....not all of religion's values are good
some are more extreme

ME (7:23 PM):
Look im not saying its values are bad.. im just saying its a lie

ME (7:24 PM):
God made universe and all this divine shit is fiction.. fantasy
and its hard to prove THAT if your intent is to tell the truth

FRIEND (7:25 PM):
but there is no proof against God and religious history
that's y it's so tempting
what do u base this belief on? how do u no God is fiction?
that's my Q\

ME (7:27 PM):
Good question
and the answer is
i believe in mankind and not god

ME (7:28 PM):
Mankind... at least i can call that truth
Religion.. well who knows right

ME (7:29 PM):
Everyone wants to be sure about their decisions.. whether to buy that certain house or car, whether to place this here or there
or even on the correct diagnosis

FRIEND (7:31 PM):
hmmm
so ur saying u believe what u see
and trust in what is tangible?

ME (7:33 PM):
thats not fair... as a doctor you will trust those reports you see from hospitals patients charts and so on

ME (7:34 PM):
thats tangible thats what you can see
i do believe in those things aswell as you

FRIEND (7:35 PM):
of course I do
but I believe in so much more, seeing is believing but there are things we can't see yet we believe in them all the same, at least I do

ME (7:35 PM):
that’s called faith
and i do have faith

FRIEND (7:36 PM):
while away at uni, I didn't see my best frd for 4 months yet I still believed that she would keep our friendship strong in her heart :)

ME (7:36 PM):
its just a matter of where you put your faith

ME (7:37 PM):
Scientists and common people alike dont put their faiths into someday finding a secret chocolate factory with an enthusiastic sweet crazed diabetic who appears to run the facility

FRIEND (7:39 PM):
that is true
but I choose to beleive in the intangible, it makes life so much more interesting and full filling, u don't have to though

FRIEND (7:40 PM):
perhaps if your life is perfect the way u like it, then certainly somethings are not required

ME (7:42 PM):
Thats fine... but when it has an effect on the whole world.. Law and the big decisions that are made.. its a problem i think

ME (7:44 PM):
Let the good values and common sense make the decision, not religion, if religion is needed so much to archive this then there is a problem.. it means that if we lose religion we'll lose the good things.. but this isn’t the case

FRIEND (7:45 PM):
only time will tell of the future hm?

ME (7:46 PM):
The fiction is all i have against it, its a book... read it again dark as if your reading one of the best selling books in 2,000 -3,000 years
I mean we know what people do when they believe in fiction

ME (7:48 PM):
fantastical... suicide bombers... granted these are isolated and confined but something so good as religion being corrupted is a terrible sign that god can be defeated and sadly that’s not the picture most people think about
if they did i think they would find despair but then freedom
as for the events
in the bible

ME (7:49 PM):
i cant year out each page and prove to you that’s it didn’t happen
it could have
but so many of our ancestors used story and fiction to describe things they couldn’t explain

ME (7:50 PM):
the ten commandments where like a code of conduct

FRIEND (7:51 PM):
I agree that not all the things the bible says can be proved, in fact, most can not, and since I'm not religious, idk wut the bible says
but I'm simply saying, it COULD be true and what I don't know for sure, I don't want to place judgement on

ME (7:52 PM):
fair enough... we shouldn’t judge times back then
but we can when there are records in other places

ME (7:53 PM):
we can even go as far as asking why God hasn’t kept visiting...

ME (7:54 PM):
He can show things like burning talking trees and power even today that seems awesome but what’s different
God... if there is a god would know that hes not a god if hes not present and has no witnesses

ME (7:56 PM):
whats the plan??? what leave us for 5,000 years then come back and destroy us because we never kept believing in him???

ME (7:57 PM):
how stupid is that, he'd know more than anyone that we are human, hes the one that gave us eyes, ears, nose these small pathetic sense that only sense a fraction of the universe around us... and he did this when he created us long before we had a chance to make the first mistake.. to choose knowledge over eden

ME (7:58 PM):
he gave us these senses to know when something’s close, far, or not here. Well my senses (and im not alone) are telling me that there is no presence of god here.
and i suppose its a "test"
because he gave us imagination
and the ability to have faith????

That’s a cruel test
and an evil God

ME (8:00 PM):
to torture his creations by giving us these inferior senses and to come back suddenly and judge us based on our shortcomings/handicaps compared to the almighty God..
thats like making someone a paraplegic and then asking them to make you a cup of coffee and it better be done before you get back form the shops!!?

FRIEND (8:02 PM):
I understand what you're getting at but truly, because I don't fully believe in religion, I don't have the prefer explanation for u, however, I can say this, IF I were to believe fully in a particular religion, I'm sure I would focus more on the virtuous teachings of that religion rather than questioning it at every point, for true faith is to believe even when not all questions are answered
do u no every answer to every question? of course u don't, yet I'm sure u are content to keep living regardless of these uncertainties because the void that these questions leave u with is not as great as the pleasure that life itself gives u

ME (8:09 PM):
Following someone or something to somewhere without a doubt or second thought?
It sounds like true faith already has a word to describe it mate – Submission.




Thankyou for reading through the debate sesh i had with a mate, please feel free to leave any comment constructive or otherwise.